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How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ?


ballroomuk Joined on 21 Октомври 2008 Total posts: 9	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 20 Февруари 2009 г. 18:02 Regarding the comment about "the USA's Mr Wilkins"... Jonathan Wilkins is English. He moved to New York when he was 20 (approx). Warren and Kristi have represented Estonia since they turned professional. There does seem to be a lack of English Pro latin couples - comparing Blackpool 1998 to 2008... 1998 had Bryan+Karen 2nd and Paul Killick 3rd. 2008 had Alex+Lisa placed 13th.
smd Joined on 13 Февруари 2009 Total posts: 21	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 20 Февруари 2009 г. 23:56 ballroomuk Regarding the comment about "the USA's Mr Wilkins"... Jonathan Wilkins is English. He moved to New York when he was 20 (approx). Warren and Kristi have represented Estonia since they turned professional. There does seem to be a lack of English Pro latin couples - comparing Blackpool 1998 to 2008... 1998 had Bryan+Karen 2nd and Paul Killick 3rd. 2008 had Alex+Lisa placed 13th. ---- I thought that Warren and Kristi are recorded as dancing for England at the Uk in Bournemouth?
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Февруари 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 21 Февруари 2009 г. 07:21 Jazz I do not understand why you wish to move your topic from your opening title. Lets stick to the topic. Again - it will have no affect as England is not the WDC.
jazz Joined on 07 Април 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 21 Февруари 2009 г. 13:53 onyourtoes Jazz I do not understand why you wish to move your topic from your opening title. ---- Life can be a challenge , sometimes we just do not understand what others wish. Is it possible that Jazz has listened to ( read ) and accepted the criticism from El Cordobes, in that the same topic was discussed to no end elsewhere ? Has Onyourtoes answered all the questions, or, is Onyourtoes focused again just on Jazz ? Onyoutoes: "Maybe England should import champions from other nations - the fashion in some countries. " You wish to stick with the thread, fine. It was another contributor, Ballroomuk, I believe, who made the observation that Mr. Wilkins was born in England, and moved to USA in late teens, or, so , correct ? However, till recently, Mr. Wilkins representing USA as an USA Champion. Maybe England HAS embarked upon what other countries do, and has imported Mr. Wilkins. This is nothing new, there are many other British champions sporting less than English sounding names. Russian, Polish, Italian. Jazz does not believe it is the countries which "import" champions, but rather that the champions of other countries are taking advantage of their "champion status" , seeking improvement in quality of life, freedom, and looking for lucrative career opportunities. Such is the way of dancesport. But not only dancesport as you must know : hockey, tennis, basket ball, you name it, even chess. A fact of life, not deserving a special mention and some supposedly "meaningful" " smile. You are correct though, in pointing out "the fashion in some countries" because not many Champions have moved, seeking immigration in Russia, Albania, or North Korea, but there may be exceptions, Jazz does not pretend knowing everything. If you think WDC is not affected ( see the topic ) do you not think WDC is not affected by their professional members supporting, adjudicating, lecturing IDSF sanctioned events ? How about those severing the ties and openly joining IDSF movement ?
Legris Joined on 21 Февруари 2009 Total posts: 2	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 21 Февруари 2009 г. 16:46 Warren & Kristi ARE dancing for England now. Rachel Heron is now a professional. I do not think the problem is a "lack" of english Professional couple. . . it is more a "quality" of Professional Couples. I do not mean for that comment to go the wrong way, but compared to other countries, they seem to get most of their couples through to at least the last 48 whilst england seem to struggle to get lets says 4 in. The WDC problem does nto help the plight of the Professional couples at all. So i would say it has effected them, but it is not overall their fault entirely.
el cordobes Joined on 19 Януари 2005 Total posts: 142	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 21 Февруари 2009 г. 22:15 Legris I do not think the problem is a "lack" of english Professional couple. . . it is more a "quality" of Professional Couples. I do not mean for that comment to go the wrong way, but compared to other countries, they seem to get most of their couples through to at least the last 48 whilst england seem to struggle to get lets says 4 in. ---- You must be joking right ? How many pro Latin couples at the British National and UK closed ?
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Февруари 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 22 Февруари 2009 г. 10:56 jazz Could Verona become the next dance Mecca ? . ---- Could I point out that Italy is hardly flush with top Pro Latin Couples. The top 3 according to the dancesportinfo.net ratings are ranked 17, 25, 60 A quick check of the results at Junior Blackpool or IDSF World Youth and Junior 2 results will show that the champions are not coming from Italy. However that does not alter the fact that the disappearance of "English" Professional competitors will not affect the WDC. The WDC is a world based organisation.
jazz Joined on 07 Април 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 22 Февруари 2009 г. 17:16 Not referring to Latin, not at all referring to Amateur Juniors or Youth. Only questioning if there may be an alternative to England and places such as the traditional Blackpool. Surely the focal point off ballroom dance belongs to place where dance is popular, where the top professionals who are copied all over the World reside, teach, coach, compete, the place where the level of dance/dancesport is at the World's top level, where dance is not only popular, and sought after but also on the rise. A place where active Professional dancers enter competitions to represent their country, under their country flag. Wouldn't WDC be affected, changed, perceived differently if the focal point moved outside England ? A possibility which Onyourtoes answered : " NO". Would WDC methods, attitude not change as a result ?
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Февруари 2007 Total posts: 657	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 23 Февруари 2009 г. 08:15 jazz " on the rise". ---- Rules out Italy then. Thats the relevance of the Youth and Junior 2 observation. Beijing? Moscow? Kiev? Not about Latin? Nor should it then be about Standard on which you concentrate. The WDC represents both Latin and Standard. The WDC represents all aspects of dance from the lowly teachers throughout the world who first introduce people to the pleasure of dance and who train them to go on and become competitors to the best trainers in the business. The WDC represents Promoters who provide many of the competitions. You so conveniently overlook that the Italian competitors who first put their country on the dancing map - Schiavo/Arzenton and Giorgianni/Manfredinni are fiercly supportive of the WDC as are many other later Italian champions. Dance has become a truly International activity and each and every country has its own great teachers. By your theory Poland is now the Latin Dance capital of the World with the best Latin teachers! Re your "Romeo and Juliet". Romance? Was there not feuding and fighting death and ultimately the death of the main characters? Are the IDSF dance competitors the Romeo and Juliet of today? May I also remind you that your topic was the affect on WDC by the disappearance of the English Professional Competitors not as you later wrote jazz If you think WDC is not affected ( see the topic ) do you not think WDC is not affected by their professional members supporting, adjudicating, lecturing IDSF sanctioned events ? How about those severing the ties and openly joining IDSF movement ? ---- Can I then remind you that WDC have no problems with their members supporting and working for other organisations.
jazz Joined on 07 Април 2005 Total posts: 444	Re: How is WDC affected by the disappearance of the "english" Professional competitors ? 23 Февруари 2009 г. 18:01 No problem reminding Jazz of her original topic, then immediately straying off when inquiring whether feuding/ fighting and romance are exclusive of each other ? Jazz is not qualified to answer your well deserved and probing questions: Lets try. Is Romeo IDSF ? Is Juliet WDC ? Probably not, because Romeo was more interested in young, progressive, vibrant and more energetic partners. Had Romeo, as IDSF, been romantically interested in WDC , wouldn't it be more like being interested in Juliet's grandma ? Not that there is anything wrong romancing more experienced, bit out of shape, slightly worn out, a bit outdated matron who is not very mobile and therefor spends much of the day looking out of the window wondering why Romeo is cruising around her household, not realizing Romeo is not interested in her but rather her house bound, free to do what ever they wish attractive nieces. onyourttoes: "Can I then remind you that WDC have no problems with their members supporting and working for other organisations." Yes, I am aware. Even Fred Bijster has reminded us that WDC had changed their ways, of not so long ago, when they have tried , and failed to push around and threaten their professional members - the failed action which was noted, copied by IDSF and which is now criticized for the implementation and use . For that reason alone I would not be highlighting the fact, ( that is that WDC has no power to hold on their members and as such had and has no alternative but to allow them to do whatever they want to do, even if it means joining the IDSF movement). This is not a reflection of freedom, in fact some may suggest it is a result of not having control over their own membership , in a way a sign of weakness. But enough about Romeo and Juliet - who never existed anyways. In the absence of English influence should WDC be viewed as a worldwide and truly international entity which claims ownership over Professional and Amateur dance, the same way as IDSF is an international entity claiming sole ownership to the sporty side of the same ? Why should one be viewed as good and the other as bad ? In the absence of British background and influence , don't both entity want the same thing ? The only difference is the method, and even the method was tested by both sides, first by WDC now by IDSF ?