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PETITION for Freedom to Dance

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webminder
Joined on 13 Ноември 2008
Total posts: 46

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 11:33

Sambatogo and Quicktime2

While minime has only  attached a clip which had a number, name  Allain Millette and  USA flag,  and in that way inadvertantly, an only in that way,   has brought the name Milltte to the  fore front, and but explained it was to bring attention to errors in the Petition,  which was the topic of the thread,   

kindly  look over your own posts and count how many times you two, Sambatogo and Quicktime 2  have used and publicized  the name Millete, repeating it, defending it, vouching what a great person he may be, remembering his name and phone were posted by some one, and suggested it was to caise harm. 

How do you know all that, how do you  recall such details ?  You now challenge Richards, who showed intuition when finding similarities between Dancer 007 and Sammy Stopford....I suggest you do not make Richards interested in analyzing your comments.  

Surely if someone wants to cause harm they need not search Forums for a telephone number and address of a  person- something you Sambatogo mentioned. They can simply pick up Yellow Pages and look it up , address, phone numbers,  and if really interested they can Google the address  and get  direction  to the  front of the desired address .  Why even mention it ? 

 Of course  it is not nice  thing to do to post others phones and adreses on web,  is it just possible someone asked for the contact, and someone else less than discretely mad it public in a forum ? 

This is hardly a proof of causing a harm,  many more famous people have fans who are interested  such details.

Minime has already informed you he/she thought highly of A. Milltte  but you two have decided  not believe it. Minime asked you for a proof of evidence to associate minime and name Millette ,  you  have not but insist you are right.    Why so obsessed defending one name, but offering, as someone pointed out,  and singling out  Tony Hurley's ?

Others readers came suggesting  the comments related to inaccuracy of the Petition for Freedom to Dance, and that it need be more accurate, because there is a chance that the critics of WDC will attack m petition from the weakest point, inaccuracy, mistakes.

Why is Sambatogo challenging Richard and whether he signed or not ?  This  was not  a polite question, and it could even turn potential new registrants off signing.

Webminder also find it curious, no names mentioned,  that some registrants show flags beside their names -  and just as Sambatogo noted,  and crticized minime for doing so, and also others noted,  the flags are not assigned correctly.....while, at the same time  no flags show beside names of many others- empty flag poles .

Would it be so difficult to also add a space for the registrants to fill the name of the country which they  wish to represent ?  Just because you have a Russian name does not mean you are signing as a representative of Russia, does it ?

If Sambatogo suggestion that the wrong Flag is assigned because of the registrants Internet providers address ,  than the Petition should be fixed to avoid inclusion of such a mistake as it could confuse and the flags would be meaningless.

Webminder minds his own, an web's business and tries to be  impartial and neutral.

This is indeed about the petition, and the accuracy is important.

-------

ps,

No, Webminder has not made up his mind and has not sign- staying neutral

 

 

 
goldfinger
Joined on 13 Март 2009
Total posts: 16

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 12:47

quicktime2

 

To Jazz and minime

 

In the last little while I have asked Jazz and minime if they could stay on topic, which is important, and not always try to inject some propaganda about Canada and the CDF – always done as if she were just adding to the discussion.

 

I believe Goldfinger and Sambatogo were right. Consider this:

 

Minime wrote with respect to the Petition-

"There are also errors beginning to appear. Taken in random order:  the supporter #215 alain millette …..is hardly an American."

 

 Goldfinger is right. There were plenty of other ways to point out there are errors. Was it really random that Mr. Millette's name was chosen? I think not.

 

Millette's name was brought into the conversation so that the following line could be included.

 "hasn't the majority of Canadian dancers allegedly already left the destructive CADA?"

 

This line has absolutely nothing to do with errors in the petition – no matter how you try to disguise its inclusion. It is propaganda pure and simple and because it is directed at one person it is malicious.

 

I'm sure I am not the only one who finds your continued obsession with trying to convince everyone your view of Canada is correct, quite tiresome. We can make up our own minds.

 

 ----

 Thank you for agreeing with me Quicktime2.

Before you continue   praising Goldfinger,  PLAESE  look over your contributions and ask yourself:  Which contributor  keeps on mentioning, bringing back names of  Canada,  CDF, CADA while claiming being tired of  being reminded of same ?

Please read over your post.  What  has  it  to  do  with  the  topic, while everything to do bringing up issue you are so tired off ?

 You sound as an intelligent person. If you do not want responses pertaining to a specific country, association,  event,   why do  you insist on asking and demanding answers  pertaining to them,  and then when you receive your  answers, why would you  accuse the responders of not discussing  the topic ? 

Can you not see it ?

 Yes,   "Goldfinger is right."

 

 

 
sambatogo
Joined on 29 Август 2007
Total posts: 280

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 16:22

Mr.Hurleys name was mentioned only as an indication that the system is flawed when it comes to the persons nationality.  And that the flag was not really all that important anyway. There was no need for anyone like minime to single out the name of an individual with his petition number. Regarding the respect part. Sambatogo is still yet to find that. This whole question regarding flags is pointless and sambatogo will not comment on this any further. The message is about letting dancers get on and dance!

Sambatogo.
quicktime2
Joined on 31 Август 2007
Total posts: 181

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 17:10

Yes you are right Goldfinger that I have mentioned CDF, CDDSC and Canada in a number of my posts. I wish I did not have to. It is a dilemma. Do I let misleading information, and propaganda go answered?

 

If I thought it would stop, I would certainly try that. In fact, I have tried that approach. But it only emboldens them to become more aggressive and repetitious.

 

It's an unpleasant job to keep the wolves at bay. It is unfortunate that other readers have to endure the situation but I suppose it is part of being on a forum. The reader must make his own assessment of the postings.

 

 

 
richards
Joined on 08 Януари 2009
Total posts: 15

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 17:38

Exactly Sambatogo, Mr. Hurley Name was mentioned to show a flaw in Petition. Is that not what minime indicated, what others understood, and accepted except you and Quicktime 2 ?

Richards agrees with Sambatogo in that the ultimate goal is to use the petition to demonstrate that dancers want to get on dancing , and dancing without unnecessary restrictions.

For that reason alone it is necessary to assure that the petition is carried out correctly, and  to assure  it represents a cross-section of the dancesport population, with as few errors and mistakes as possible.  It is not the reason why petition asks for correct e-mail addresses to enable verification ?

If the assigned national   flags were unimportant, they should have not been a part of the petition.  Sambatogo feels that his mentioning a specific name was harmless to highlight an error with registrants nationality, but calls minime 'pathetic'  when minime only posted a clip  and pointed out  exactly the same thing as SDambatogo  - error regarding  incorrect flag which points to wrong nationality.

Both minime and Sambatogo agreed there was a mistake, both identified same error,  but  minime dared to suggest that the mistake should be corrected. Minime mentiond one person, and explained he/she regarded this person highly,  after being accused of some wrong doing. While it may be  true that minime's opinion differed  from Sambatogo's when he has  trumpeted success of CDDSC in Canada over CADA and CDF.     Were  minime's  and anybody else's comments on WDC or CDDCS  aimed at a specific person ?  I think not,  and just as Sambatogo has a critical view  of lets say CDF he is not  insulting  a specific person .  Sambatogo is not shy to call specific people very specific names.   He demonstrated it when addressing minime.  No guessing there.

Richards  happens to be a profiler by occupation.  It  takes no  profiler to see what is going on here and the professional integrity does not allow to discuss this an closer.

Why don't  you all wait for the petition to close,  and  then start interpreting and discussing (fighting?) over the results ?

There are just too many flaws with the petition the interpretations will be quite varied .

What  do you think the goal of the petition is ?  

Sambatogo proclaims to be  experienced,  (over 2 decades),  and  cannot possibly be  so naive  as to believe the 'message  is about  letting dancers get on and dance' ? 

Too many assumptions were made:  everyone would have to be aware of the petition, have a computer to register, understand English - and what they are signing, not be shy to publicize own  name,  not be concerned  of possible undesired effect,  how their name and address will be used, who may get hold of the information and many others.  Supporters of WDC will be expected to sign 100%,  yet you see that the numbers are not representative at all of  even a fraction of the WDC supporters.

Call Richards a sceptic if you wish.   The Petition's name is probably the best part  and quite impressive .

       

 

 
sambatogo
Joined on 29 Август 2007
Total posts: 280

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 18:51

Richards,

It is a petition!!! Get over it. You guys make such a big deal over nothing.You either support the petition or you don`t?

Trying to Kniitpick over minor details is absurd.

Also, you have avoided the question about where is the respect shown for Mr. Millette by Minime?Sambatogo refuses to believe that Minime`s sole purpose was to demonstrate the flaws in the system of the petition.  That could have done in many other ways.There was no need to bring up individuals.

And Sambatogo has never said that the CDDSC "has trupmpeted succes over CADA" So get you facts straight. I challenge you to find were this has been said. 

How you may have interpreted and read Minime`s words, and how others read it is very different. Obviously you know that person. But it is arrogant of you to presume how all others read Minime`s words and speak for all.

Mr. Millette name has been used in attack on this forum before. Is your experience or  memory so short. This was done by CADA and CDF supporting individuals? Is this right thing to do?  Not to mention what they did a meeting a few years ago at a so called Professional meeting.

I dissagree that the nationality is important. In our oppinion, it is the individuals that matter, and what they want. Obviously you don`t want what the signees want, otherwise you would not be so argumentive over such trivial matters. And support the petion and what it stands for. Despite any flaws. It is the bigger picture that is relevant.

Is not the purpose of the petition self evident? Are you not a 'Profiler by occupation? "

And yes Sambatogo must " be so naive as to believe the message is about letting dancers get on and dance" as you put it.

As the WDC is run by dancers who havedanced and do dance, unlike the IDSF!

So there you have it! 

Sambatogo.  
sambatogo
Joined on 29 Август 2007
Total posts: 280

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

17 Март 2009 г. 19:33

Close to 900 now.

 
richards
Joined on 08 Януари 2009
Total posts: 15

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance vs. Petition for IOC ?

17 Март 2009 г. 21:16

All right .    Since you insist  that  I  repeat again mimime's  praises,   let me copy it one more time.  

 
 

 

Monday, 16 March 2009 23:49

  "Minime,  until this day,  considers especially Mr. Millet to be a gentleman,   a reputable member of CDDCS, a person of significance,  character and a distinction, and of course a Canadian representative,  who  belongs under the flag with  Maple Leaf , and not  Stars and Stripes."

You would not happen to disagree with minime's consideration  Sambatogo  , would you  ?

Contrary what Sambatogo says Richards had answered your  question earlier ,  restated  the above quotation  in the  prior response.   Sambatogo probably forgot he has acknowledged the answer , but refused to believe it ....

I have suggested that if   Minime's admission of having such a  high regard....... was an insult, with intent to discredit ..... that I  himself  would be pleased if  Sambatogo, or anyone else  made Richards  a target  of such an outrageous insult. 

It is Sambatogo right to to believe what he wants , lets move on,  no further comment from this side  to avoid going in usual and anticipated circles. 

Three times repeated praise for you is enough.

I would suggest that  Sambatogs does not repeat and  rubbing  in my profession,  if only  to motivate me to keep more surprises away from  your secret  admirers.

Yes, almost 900 names,  900 names representing what percentage ( % )  of  the pool size ?

How long will the petition run ?  A month, two, six, till X-mas, for ever ?  When, and how  will the names  be used  ?  If just a petition,  it would not be by any chance presented to IOC as a proof that IDSF does not have "all dancers" under their authority,  would it ?

Just another  intuition, which, if the petition is succesful,  some will say was just a lucky guess.

 

 
onyourtoes
Joined on 12 Февруари 2007
Total posts: 657

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance

18 Март 2009 г. 09:34

richards a petition is not needed to show how many dancers are not under the control of the IDSF. The very existence of the WDC, WDC Am League, IDU, IDSA, etc. are proof .  Events like the British Open, the UK Open, the International, the Dutch Open, the USA Open, the Asian Tour and the German Open with collaboration with WDC are proof.

Remember if the IPDSC is independent and autonomous its members are not under IDSF control/authority and yet I doubt the IPDSC people will be rushing to sign a WDC petition.

Might I respectfully point out unfortunately it is not uncommon for people to return to their postings adding sentences that were never previouly there, sometimes deleting words  and sentences which should never have been included in the first place.  There is another forum totally unrelated to dance in which I participate. There you have a 10 minute edit period and thereafter cannot gain access to change the posting. It was done to prevent exactly this situation. 
sambatogo
Joined on 29 Август 2007
Total posts: 280

Re: PETITION for Freedom to Dance vs. Petition for IOC ?

18 Март 2009 г. 15:50

Richards,

Sambatogo thanks you very much for your evidence of Minime`s words. But sambatogo must be loosing the mind as there is no recolection of such words. And later research found no such words either. 

However, is it not strange that Minime who has respect for someone, would lose it over an obvious mistake over the posting of a flag on a petition?

Also Onyourtoes may have given an option of what may have occured? So Sambatogo may not be loosing the mind afterall.

Now what about those supposed CADA statements?

But nevermind. This is about the WDC petition which you Richards have no respect for, despite the over 900 names and names of many experienced, recognised at top persons in our world of dance. 

Sambatogo.
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