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Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we GO again!

05 Юни 2009 г. 23:09

Sorry Jazz that after all the fine words you feel this is your last comment.

Guess the rest of us have to stay and fight and do all the fine things you expect.  Hate to say this but you cannot point the finger when you throw in the towel.

How many edits are you making   Over 1700 views now!!

Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we GO again!

11 Юни 2009 г. 00:53

Hello JohnBull,

Ofcourse I will explain.

I don't think absolute power and control will automaticly lead to corruption, but this power and control should be carefully structured and monitored. A lot of power without structure will more often lead to corruption, wich tends to make me think more about the WDC then the IDSF. But I don't have enough information to make a statement on that subject. I do want to say that power and control should never be a goal, it might be a way to achieve a goal.

The big difference in the goals of IDSF and WDC is that the IDSF strives to preserve the current recognition by the IOC and with that the recognition of national IDSF members by the national IOC-members. Besides preservation of the recognition, the IDSF wants to expand it and keeps working to gain the ultimate recognition for a sport: Olympic recognition.

Apart from the question if Dancing should be an Olympic sport or not, having the recognition of the IOC means the sport as a whole receives a lot of money and support. This is why I would like the IDSF to be the prominent player in the danceworld. Because only with a lot of money and good healthy organisations Dancing can grow to be as big it deserves to be, and this beautifull ArtSport for example deserves to be on TV worldwide every weekend on primetime right before football.

This is my opinion about the (official / public) goals of the IDSF. I do not agree with the way the IDSF thinks it has to play the game. But I think we all agree on that.

Hope this makes things clearer.

Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we GO again!

11 Юни 2009 г. 09:52

Joost  I have a great deal of respect for you but I must disagree with your thinking on the IOC.

Surely Dancesport must have greater ambition that a once every 4 year competition. Even if the impossible happens and DanceSport was a medal sport many of the top competitors would be ineligible.   A competition should be about the best (or as some one would say favourite) couple regardless of nationality.

I am afraid the flood of money some believe in will not happen.

Since IOC recognition of DanceSport in 1997 all the evidence I have seen as that whilst there was some money came into dancing it made very little difference.  In recent years many DanceSport national bodies have seen that meagre funding reduced and reduced.  

Please do not forget that with IDSF involvment the Eurovision Dance Contest 2009 has been cancelled through lack of broadcaster interest.

The contract between IDSF and IMG the biggest Media sports organisation was terminated by mutual agreement.  If IMG could not interest the media it is doubtful any other group would come close.  

DanceSport needs much more vision than "the Olympics".

Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we GO again!

11 Юни 2009 г. 12:25

Hello Joost

Thank you for the explanation but I cannot agree with your vision.

Dance,  DanceSport,   SportArt whatever you call it must have more of a goal than the Olympics or we are in big big trouble.

Yes there may be big money in Sport (just look at the "sale" of Ronaldo today) but it is my simple opinion you expect a miracle if you believe even a part of this will come to Dance because it is called Dancesport.  I think you will be sadly disillusioned over the next 50 years. 

Anyway congratulations that you have the courage to dance Assen and hopefully other IDSF forbidden events.  Dancesport needs more people like you.

Re: DUTCH OPEN/ASSEN 2009 - Here we go again!

11 Юни 2009 г. 16:50

JohnnyCash

Dear Onyourtoes! I don't understand one thing: If there are couples who dance in WDC and Amateur League attending the competition in Assen. Why would this be a problem with IDSF??? And if those couples want to attend so called TRULY OPEN competitions (as described in this years Blackpool start book) what does this have to do with IDSF??? In my opinion there is no war going anymore. IDSF stopped it. There is no discussion anymore. Couples who see themselves as artists only, dance in WDC, the others who want to be called sportsmen rather then artists are in IDSF. 

----

 Johnny Cash taking note of your previous very nasty posts including

I hesitate to respond.  However your post is just so contradictory so lacking in accuracy that I must make some comment.   Your bias unfortunately stops you from seeing what is there in front of your eyes. I am so sorry that your previously expressed hatred of a very great man and champion the President of the WDC unfortunately is a great handicap to your clear thinking.

Why it is a problem for IDSF that couples wish to dance at Cervia, Assen, Paris and the growing list of WDC Am League events?  That  you will need to raise with IDSF.  IDSF are certainly terrified of this. I suspect it is because they are afraid of the loyalty of their couples and do not want them to have a choice.

The fact is that it is IDSF who are issuing statements and devote a special page on their website to threats against both competitors and adjudicators. If you had only spent  5 minutes on research you would know that IDSF is ever increasing their war rather than putting a stop to it or even trying to negotiate peace for the good of dancesport. 

You write  Couples who see themselves as artists only, dance in WDC, the others who want to be called sportsmen rather then artists are in IDSF. 

Do you really believe that?  Surely not!  First in many countries the Amateur couples have no choice they are forced into the arms of IDSF (England and Netherlands are just 2 examples) and have no say as to what they consider themselves. Second.  Have you forgotten many couples compete as Amateur in IDSF events and then declare that they are professional and thereafter dance WDC or at least the best ones do. The not so good might dance IPDSC.  The WDC Open Market Policy allows couples to dance IPDSC and WDC events but the vast majority have no interest in IPDSC.  Are you suggesting that these people declare" I am no longer a sportsperson now I am an artist" ?  If so it might be because they realise the way they can improve and be better.

Good for you - your cup of tea is to develop your dancing along the higher, faster, further, stronger basis eliminating all aspects of artistry, musicality, line/shape/beauty and costuming.  I wish you well.  One suggestion why not read this http://www.worldgames-iwga.org/vsite/vcontent/page/custom/0,8510,1044-163538-180753-18027-62244-custom-item,00.html  of particular interest should be these words  which sum up the WDC vision perfectly

Proper technique is the foundation in DanceSport. At the competitive level, however, athletes are expected to combine their technique with elements of athleticism, artistry and aesthetics.

Aesthetics the appreciation of art and beauty. 

I realise that all this may be a little surprising for you given your previous post

I wonder have you noticed that IPDSC intend to put a stop to those who dance as Professional in IPDSC events returning to dance in IDSF events (Amateur). 

However please may I respectfully mention that whilst you have taken this opportunity to rant away it has nothing to do with Assen and why IDSF have such a big problem in couples and adjudicators participating in The Dutch Open a recognised  great event nor why IDSF feel the need to wage war on Assen and other events..

C.U. in ASSEN Johnny Cash?  You might be surprised what a great time you would have. Both Sportsmen and SportArtists are welcome exactly as in many other truly open events like Blackpool.

Finally no foul language please. I do not believe in censorship and I do not want to delete your postings from my forum but I will do if you again use offensive language.