Good News, or a set back for OADA Members ?

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Joined on 09 Август 2009
Total posts: 3

Re: Good News, or a set back for OADA Members?

09 Август 2009 г. 15:36

gardenia
wooden_spoon

 The Board is NOT "looking after" us, in fact they were down right pissed when we voted this down. ...

After voting it down, are they now representing us accordingly with their show of support?  NO. 

===============================

thank you wooden_spoon for bringing to the attention that the Board accepted what " we voted this down..."

You ask   "....are they ( the Board ) representing us ....with show of support "

I happened to be at this important meeting and it was my first time.

Sure there was a reluctance to accept  specific  majority decision, sure there was disbelieve and repeated recount  BUT  the majority  decision was  respected !!!

It made me feel so proud to be OADA member, I had to start my first Thread.

Hasn't Mr. Britain showed his support to the democratic process when publicly asking increased participation and exercising our rights ?

It does not matter what  he , or the defeated minority want,  the majority decision matters and if we the OADA members want something  we were invited by our President and we shall participate and we shall propose changes we want and we shall have the dancesport and the Board we, the majority want. 

This is  a wonderful realization.  

(  sorry I did not mean to make the field all blue it just happened, i have much to learn about posting, very sorry, this is embarrassing  )

 

 

----

 I forgot to say ....Spectator 100 is right in that the Amateur OADA members competing in other Provinces and World's IDSF events will probably dance, and probably be badly defeated by reinstated  to Amateur status ex Professionals.

There is no shame to be defeated by those who were allowed by their associations and IDSF to  change  their  Professional 'coat' for an Amateur 'coat' .  In our-  the spectator's-  views  these  "ex-Pro-Pseudo-Amateurs"  probably  cannot cut the mustard amongst the better Professionals,  and probably  desirous , or  greedy,  for recognition they  have no shame to take Trophies and the few  financial rewards from the pure Amateurs. 

While not perhaps outright shameful,  beating Amateurs can hardly be very rewarding for the ex-Professionals, and they can hardly expect recognition from us, the paying spectators and Amateur competitors, who in the presence of reinstated Professionals see we have less and less chance to get that special trophy  , some of us may even see no sense banging the head against the wall, swimming against the stream, and now seemingly wasting  time, energy and moneys to improve our skills to  reach now the more and more distant podium or the first place. 

Joined on 22 Март 2009
Total posts: 19

Re: Good News, or a set back for OADA Members?

09 Август 2009 г. 19:06

Gardenia, I had same problems.

When you press Quote and continue,  the copied quote always appear in blue. If you respond under a line, under the quote, your response will be black against white.

Just ask  Marat Gimaev & Alina Basiouk from Russia how they felt about not placing 1st in the World Games, since even Claudia Kohler has acted as a professional and judged an IDSF event, and P.Bosco had turned a Pro.

Why not ask Martin Dvorak and Zuzana Silhanova ( Czech republic ) how they felt about not making the Final Round because the finals ware filled, and  blocked by Professionals and those  acting as Professionals ?

Why don't you ask  Luc Richer & Suzie Maille (Canada ) how they feel about ending  consistently second to an excellent  ex- Professional and a decorated Champion, now turned Amateur ( after enduring the compulsory 3 years penalty ).   

What causes  this new trend  where  Professionals want  to dance as Amateurs ?

Is this just the IPDSC phenomenon ,  is this a trend encouraged by IDSF,  or is the World wide and also  amongst the WDC Professionals  ? 

Is it because of lack of competitions for Professionals,  or is it as Gardenia wrote a desire for recognition as the best within not the top,  or just not as-good-as  amateurs ? 

 

Joined on 07 Януари 2009
Total posts: 32

Re: Good News, or a set back for OADA Members?

10 Август 2009 г. 07:53

bulldog I can understand from where you are coming but is it not a very unfortunate fact that Marat Gimaev & Alina Basiouk  and   Martin Dvorak and Zuzana Silhanova (along with almost all top so called Amateurs)   are themselves very busy coaching dancers, performing "shows", receiving  expenses and "appearance money" to compete. In fact they have an income from dancing activities.  Strictly speaking they are all "Professionals" even if for the moment they style themselves "Amateur".  They are keeping genuine Amateurs out of finals, semi finals and so on.  Could I also mention please German Amateur couples have been eligible to adjudicate for many years if, to my knowledge,  they have obtained the qualification and do not adjudicate their own "Class".

It is not unknown for Professionals to be re-instated as Amateur and then dance Senior at Blackpool.   This has caused unhappiness amongst EADA seniors but it is entirely outside the hands of the organisers.  National Associations make the rules and if they say someone is Amateur then Amateur they are.

Since it is both CADA and IDSF policy to re-instate Professionals to Amateur status I wonder if it is the intention of the OADA members the true Amateurs who were successful in their intentions to now push for withdrawal of OADA from CADA.  That would be consistent if very revolutionary!

 

Joined on 22 Март 2009
Total posts: 19

Re: Good News, or a set back for OADA Members?

10 Август 2009 г. 16:47

@spectator100

 if you consider all Amateurs who received / earned  their Association's approval to teach dancesport ( under the "strict supervision of a Professional mentor and at an annual fee,...) then I suppose the most couples sent to the World Games ,  until now referred to as Pseudo-Professionals, could possibly be considered Professionals, as many indeed earn living and support their dance by teaching, demos, shows.

The motive behind their reluctance to turn Professionals may be  their desire to continue to lead their  Amateur pack, receive the financial support as the Top Dog,  rather then lining up  behind a row of far better and better known Professionals. It may be that the fees Pros pay are higher then the fees Amateurs must pay...annual fee, event entry fees, even cost of Private lessons.

I question the opposite trend where Professionals want to turn Amateurs.  WHY ?

I realize  such  reinstatement must be a music to IDSF and the National Associations ears,  if there  decided to follow IDSF .   After all if dancesport is to be part of the Olympic Games, IDSF would need  Dancesport Athletes (  Amateur, Professional, Senior 1,2,3, Junior..., handicap, all the rest of dancesport types would only confuse the issue ) 

I consider it an unsportsmanlike if someone with an obvious advantage takes the opportunity to take away "glory" from someone less privileged, Pros taking away from Amateurs, yet you may argue that an Pseudo-Amateur may teach longer hours and higher quality students than an old Pro , who may live of teaching social dancers.

But it appears there is little concern about sportsmanlike behaviour these days...

There is a reason why Amateur Dance Associations are encouraging their top Amateurs to teach,  I do not see through all the dust, but we all will soon see clearly,  as soon as the dust settles.  This is not happening by accident, IDSF has a long term goal and  everything is carefully planned.

 But  back to the topic...whether  OADA member's voted for, or,  against  something and OADA followed and recognized the majority's decision, that itself is very encouraging, and it does not matter if OADA favored or not the majority decision, the fact remains OADA action and acceptance of the terms is commendable,  and an example to other dance sport members, that  they can have anything if they organize and act united. The process and democracy works in Ontario.

I feel it is not a set back for Ontario Members,  it is not much of a victory either as Professional can get reinstated ...they need only wait another 6 months, the way I read the Rules, and there are no competitions in the summer time, so they would not even miss much by waiting.

 

 

 

 

Joined on 31 Август 2007
Total posts: 181

Re: Good News, or a set back for OADA Members?

10 Август 2009 г. 22:57

If dancesport becomes a medal sport - and I believe the possibility is miniscule at best - then the International Federation representing dancesport (currently IDSF but not necessarily in the future) will have to include professionals as eligible to partake in the Olympics regardless if they belong to IDSF or not. This has now become a requirement that the IOC has imposed on the federations trying to become a medal Olympic sport.

This has always been a major problem to IDSF wanting sole control. All the moves by IDSF, for example saying there are no professionals, then saying there are professional but they are amateurs since they can teach to forming a professional association IPDSC that they controI.

Unfortunately for them the IOC quite rightly demands that the countries representatives be the best - and the best is deternmined by OPEN competition. By luck the WDC stumbled on instituting precisely the most important  criteria the IOC insisgts on to being in theOlympics. And IDSF now finds itself insisting on the opposite.

Can WDC take advantage of the situation? we will see.

Joined on 13 Март 2009
Total posts: 16

Re: Good News, or a set back for OADA Members?

11 Август 2009 г. 13:01

 

@wooden_spoon

You and the voting majority of OADA members have in fact agreed, supported, helped and agreed with  IDSF's "independent"  division called IPDSC,   which at the IPDSC AGM in Dec.2008   stated they would  "PUT A STOP TO COUPLES DANCING AS PROFESSIONALS RETURNING TO DANCE  AS AMATERS"

 

I am not surprised the OADA president expressed a disappointment, since IPDCS is a Professional Organizations with Goals independent of IDSF, where IDSF represents  Amateurs, where OADA is an affiliated  Amateur Provincial  Member,  under CADA-a National Member. 

Is it possible your president wishes to increase the  OADA membership ?To be fair, this does not mean he is against IPDSC   , as he would not like the reinstated Amateurs to switch back and forth from Pros to Am  and back to Pros, something which IPDSC has allowed to happen in the recently held World Games.

Perhaps there is a conflict between the two groups  and their philosophies when  IPDSC has  failed in stopping their  top ranking  professionals   P. Bosco & S. Pitton from dancing against "Amateurs" and winning the World Games.

However, if  a professional member  is unhappy belonging to IPDSC, IPDSC has no power to stop them from quiting and  applying to be reinstated as Amateurs, and it is up to the Amateur associations and IDSF to agree to accept them .

It is all becoming pretty messy, since many top Amateurs have been allowed to teach, and many earn living from teaching dance, and by definition these Amateurs are in fact Professional Dance teachers.

 

PS 

just consider: a professional / dance teacher  is reinstated as an amateur,  as amateur makes a final in a national championship and "earns"  right to starts teaching again.

Question:  will such a person be required to pass the " teaching" test offered by CDF, or will his/her prior experience as a dance teacher  give him/her a free pass ? 

 

 

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